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slwiser
Junior Member
115 Posts |
 Posted - 07/05/2007 : 03:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin
Different caps have huge impact on sound signature, so do their combinations. The difficult thing is: the sound is different, but hard to tell which is better. There are so many different combinations, I was simply lost in past weeks. Any of them are are great, really, but finding out the very best one is tough.
And the reason that you may have been lost is that at some level subjectivity trumps any objective measure in this area and you the designer has to make the call and present your decisions to the world and bear the blunt of everyone else's subjective opinion on your final design. This is one reason people really enjoy your Supermicro series since each individual's subjective take can be satisfied. Since I am not a tweaker I will allow myself the pleasure of enjoying your decision.
I tell young people coming into my field that the two hardest parts of any job are the "start of it" and the "ending it". There is a saying in an old movie that applies here, "there is no end in doing right" from the movie "Outlaw Josie Wells." |
Edited by - slwiser on 07/05/2007 05:55:43 |
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kaushama
Junior Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 09:41:54
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GOTO and Jamato,
In what ways recent experiances and knowledge on Reference will affect other XIN amps like Macro and mini? Dr. Xin is doing whole new revision of the layouts of these based on MICRO layout?? |
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saisunil
New Member
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 12:49:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Xin
Different caps have huge impact on sound signature, so do their combinations. The difficult thing is: the sound is different, but hard to tell which is better. There are so many different combinations, I was simply lost in past weeks. Any of them are are great, really, but finding out the very best one is tough.
Dr. Xin, if the differences are subtle - may I suggest choosing the most musical option. I'd imagine, this would address the musical needs most of your customers, including myself.
Thank you |
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goto2003
Average Member
626 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 22:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kaushama
GOTO and Jamato,
In what ways recent experiances and knowledge on Reference will affect other XIN amps like Macro and mini? Dr. Xin is doing whole new revision of the layouts of these based on MICRO layout??
I don't know What I know is he's still working on the RE. I went back and forth between the 12000uf and 15000uf Panasonic FC caps and said "Man, it's tough to turn down any of them; they both sound damp good; 12000uf has a bass and natural presentation to die for yet the liquidity and soundstage of 15000uf is just something you only get from very fine tube amp". I understand the choices for Dr. Xin are much more than two and truely a tough decision for him. |
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PPkiller
New Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 22:49:22
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| hmm... how about interchangable/swapable cap ? bundle reference with a socket for cap.. so that users can choose to listen to which type of cap signature according to their preference... |
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PPkiller
New Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 23:49:49
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| hmm.. how about super E the 12000 and 15000? :-p |
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jhlbbs
Junior Member
Denmark
396 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2007 : 02:02:16
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Coming up on 250 hours of constant playtime and on second set of alkaline batteries. The first set had been in my LE so were not new so the 200 hours playtime on a set seems about right. I've made a random playlist of nearly 60 GB of aac 320 kb music on my iMod and listen whenever I'm working in my home office. The sound is just fantastic. I have not opened the amp (dont have the right size wrench) so I have no idea what cap combination is in it (other than it is big and black ;-) ).
Home rig : Jungson CDT2 (Amperex A2900 tubes) > TARA Labs RSC Air 1 > EarMax AE (Telefunken 6922+ECC801S tubes) > ATH-L3000
Hotelroom rig : Sony D-EJ1000 PCDP > KT88 cable > Xin Reference > AKG K340 (KT88 modded)
Portable rig : 60 GB 4th gen iMod > mcpig cable > Xin SuperMini III (ST) > Shure E4C/Atrio M5
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PPkiller
New Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 07:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by slwiser
quote:
Originally posted by jamato8
The Super E configuration is being used in the power supply to reduce the ESR (in the analogy above it would be like giving a gallon jug with a 2cm opening and much larger opening, say 20cm, so there would be as little restriction as possible to the flow of current or in this case, water). The output impedence will not be controlled by the reduction in ps esr but by the output of the unit, be that in a tube with a large cap output, cathode follower or low output impedence device. Imput impedence can be controlled by the set impedence of the volume control and is normally desired to be 20K or higher with an output impedence as low as possible, anywhere from a couple of ohms, as I have seen in some tube equipment to less than an ohm.
www.pbase.com/jamato8
Headamp's AE-2 and the AE-1 have an output impedance less than 1 ohm.
The Eddie Current SSCS amp is rated at 0.5 ohm. I have seem some others less than 0.1 ohm and am thinking the Reference has somehow reach below that.
Dr. Xin has said many times about getting the output impedance to zero and this is one of the main purposes of the four channel design of the Reference and newer Supermicro series. Several places over the past few months he speaks about getting the output impedance to zero. It becomes interesting to search on impedance and output using Google advance search only on the URL of www.fixup.net and see how much this has been discussed. The first one (maybe second one) is the one that shows the newer design using four Xin amps with two feeding each other two drawn on a piece of paper and scanned into the thread and this concept became the proof concept for the newer four channel designs.
This may be one factor in why my UE9s sound so good with the Reference in that the UE9s is almost a constant load over the audio frequencies and provides a very discrete impedance for the amp. Here are some references concerning damping factors and amp output impedance:
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/damping_factor.pdf
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/mdampingfactor.html
interesting read.. how do we measure the output ohmn with a multimeter? one pin to ground and one pin to left/right and measure the resistance? |
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jhlbbs
Junior Member
Denmark
396 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 08:19:59
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Just got a mail from Dr. Xin and I now know what my configuration is.
One 22000uf Nichicon cap, two 100uf tantalum
Home rig : Jungson CDT2 (Amperex A2900 tubes) > TARA Labs RSC Air 1 > EarMax AE (Telefunken 6922+ECC801S tubes) > ATH-L3000
Hotelroom rig : Sony D-EJ1000 PCDP > KT88 cable > Xin Reference > AKG K340 (KT88 modded)
Portable rig : 60 GB 4th gen iMod > mcpig cable > Xin SuperMini III (ST) > Shure E4C/Atrio M5
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slwiser
Junior Member
115 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 10:31:18
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I just changed out my first set of batteries this morning. I put them in on the Thursday I got them, two ago. The amp has been on constantly since hook up to a 250 ohm load when not in use.
I don't know how to measure output impedance of an amp. |
Edited by - slwiser on 07/08/2007 10:32:26 |
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Jeremy
New Member
Singapore
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2007 : 11:21:50
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Not in a hurry to get it. Will wait for the final changes.
I still find that Super Macro 4 should be a lead in sound as compare to the Reference for it can be op-amp rolling. And the 4 AAA batteries will it be enough power for the reference amp. Maybe it's compensated by a higher value cap.
Again, I think it's up to individual preference. Good thing about Super Micro 4 & Reference is that you don't need to get headache to get the best sound by op-amp rolling.
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jhlbbs
Junior Member
Denmark
396 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2007 : 11:47:02
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If you are into the sound of the Reference or SuperMicro none of the other Xin amps can beat it as they have been optimized for this sound. If you prefer something different, need the feature switches or just like to tinker with the sound the other amps are the ones to get. The Reference has plenty power to drive very demanding phones but you can always ask for a higher gain when ordering your amp.
Home rig : Jungson CDT2 (Amperex A2900 tubes) > TARA Labs RSC Air 1 > EarMax AE (Telefunken 6922+ECC801S tubes) > ATH-L3000
Hotelroom rig : Sony D-EJ1000 PCDP > KT88 cable > Xin Reference > AKG K340 (KT88 modded)
Portable rig : 60 GB 4th gen iMod > mcpig cable > Xin SuperMini III (ST) > Shure E4C/Atrio M5
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slwiser
Junior Member
115 Posts |
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Jeremy
New Member
Singapore
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2007 : 16:34:43
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Thanks.
Maybe I will consider selling my SuperMicro 4 & Macro 4 in the used market after listening to the reference. Don't really need so many portable amp.
quote:
Originally posted by jhlbbs
If you are into the sound of the Reference or SuperMicro none of the other Xin amps can beat it as they have been optimized for this sound.
Home rig : Jungson CDT2 (Amperex A2900 tubes) > TARA Labs RSC Air 1 > EarMax AE (Telefunken 6922+ECC801S tubes) > ATH-L3000
Hotelroom rig : Sony D-EJ1000 PCDP > KT88 cable > Xin Reference > AKG K340 (KT88 modded)
Portable rig : 60 GB 4th gen iMod > mcpig cable > Xin SuperMini III (ST) > Shure E4C/Atrio M5
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PPkiller
New Member
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2007 : 18:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by slwiser
quote:
interesting read.. how do we measure the output ohmn with a multimeter? one pin to ground and one pin to left/right and measure the resistance?
This link shows you how to build a device to measure impedance:
http://headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=tongue1_prj.htm
wow.. thanks.. looks "chim"(difficult)... |
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New XIN Reference amp
